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- From: Bob Davis Area: DESQview
- To: Clark Vandiver @ 911/104 13 Dec 89 23:17:52
- Subject: The ultimate System
-
- CV> Can someone tell me what the "ultimate" system configuration would be
- CV> to run DESQview 386 w/QEMM-386?
-
- Based on the suite of software you mentioned to run under DV, you better get
- 4-8 mb memory and a 25 mhz 386.
- CV> what type of Memm and how much; Perhaps a recomendation on a monitor
- CV> (NEC multisync XL 20"?).
-
- Unless you just have to have the 20 inch, you might be happier with the super
- high performance 16 inch models from various vendors. I use a NEC 3D (14
- inch 1024x768 max) and have been very pleased with it. Be sure you check the
- brightness on the monitor. Many good looking monitors are lacking in reserve
- brightness. The Sonys and Bendix are bad about this.
-
- Bob
-
- --- QM v1.23/b
- * Origin: The Fireside OPUS, Houston, Texas (1:106/114.0)
-
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- From: Bob Davis Area: DESQview
- To: Don Carroll 13 Dec 89 23:30:54
- Subject: 1:1 RLL & DV
-
- DC> if this is a 386 and you are running QEMM then put NR on the QEMM.SYS
- DC> line
- DC>
- DC> like this --> Device=qemm.sys NR
-
- Whoa, Don. Say that AGAIN. Is that an undocumented thing from QuarterDeck?
- My manuals are at the office so I can't look it up, but I sure don't remember
- it. What does NR do? Your message is the first I have heard about it. Is
- it supported under QEMM v4.23 or is it only in your new version?
-
- Bob
-
- --- QM v1.23/b
- * Origin: The Fireside OPUS, Houston, Texas (1:106/114.0)
-
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- From: Ralf Brown Area: DESQview
- To: David Page 13 Dec 89 09:16:00
- Subject: Re: QEMM386 - Help!
-
- > ME> In the continuing saga of running QEMM386 on my new
- > ME> Precision 386SX motherboard I've been able to isolate
- > ME> the problem to this: Whenever I lock my comm port at
- > ME> 19,200 baud from a comm program inside of DESQview
- > ME> 2.22 and QEMM386 4.23 my computer will lock up usually
- >
- > You MUST have an NS16550AN to do this reliably! (This is
- > the Uart for your comm port).
-
- Depends on your system. When I got my new 386/33 (with 16450's, not 550's), I
- did some tests with RBcomm and with DSZ. RBcomm had no problem keeping up
- with 57600 bps receives without flow control. DSZ couldn't quite handle
- 57600, but did quite nicely at 38400 (3550cps on the one file I tried). All
- my tests were run under DV2.22+QEMM4.23 with no other windows open.
-
- --- FD 2.00
- * Origin: Interrupt Central, via The Gas Passer HST 412-648-6326 (1:129/46.1)
-
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- From: Robert Faison Area: DESQview
- To: Brice Fleckenstein 14 Dec 89 18:10:00
- Subject: Re: RE: 386/VCPI? BETTER THAN DV?
-
- > The simple exchange of a 386SX motherboard for a 80286 motherboard is
- > EXACTLY that - and is NO more difficult than adding a ACC to a 80286
- > motherboard. I'll grant that a 80386 motherboard would be a better
- > investment than a 386SX motherboard in the long run, though - and is no
- > more difficult to swap than the 386SX motherboard would be.
-
- Well, take a look at this message. It ain't from me and he knows what he is
- doing... I think I learned a little more from Ken's messages.
- Msg # 480
- Date: 12-04-89 15:52
- From: Kenneth Roach
- To: Robert Faison
- Subj: 386SX Motherboard
-
- This is a follow up message about the 386SX motherboards Robert. Over the
- weekend, I installed two 386SX motherboards as well as a 286 motherboard.
- What a pain.... With the 286/12 motherboard, we experienced modest problems
-
- with the hard disk controller. As I told the owner of the system, it was
- clear that we were not praying to the correct gods. Be that as it may, we
- had it working by Sunday night. For the first 386SX motherboard installed,
- two problems occurred. First, the case to be used was an AT case, drilled,
- etc for mounting only an AT sized motherboard. The particular 386SX board
- installed was instead, an XT sized motherboard. Despite my objections, the
- owner decided to sort of set the motherboard in place on foam strips and use
- the boards installed in the slots to hold it in place... I certainly hope
- he corrects this problem at some point or another, but in the meantime, it
- appears to work.
-
- Problems were also encountered when installing my own 386SX mother. The
- actual installation of the board required about 45 minutes, including
- carefully noting what wires went where, removing all cards and the old
- mother, and the opposite process for installing the 386SX. After this was
- done, I found that the video card I was using was too slow to operate properly
- in the system. It's a very old Hyundai thing, which saw life first in a
- 4.77mHz Blue Chip system. I spent $30 to get a new mono adapter, which worked
- much better, and gave the old one to a friend. The second problem occurred as
- the result of using QEMM in this system for the first time. In my haste, I'd
- forgotten to tell QEMM to exclude the area of memory where the network card
- lives, so the network software refused to function. This was my fault, and it
- took me a while to figure out what I'd done wrong. The final problem related
- to a bad chip in one of the simms. The system wouldn't run for more than 3-4
- hours, and had to cool for some time after that. Since this was discovered on
- Saturday and I could not replace the memory until Monday, my BBS was down
- from then until Monday night. The upshot of all this I suppose is that while
- installation really was quite easy, the few problems encountered I think were
- significant. Had I lived in Northern Saskatchewan and was conducting all
- business via mail order, it may have taken considerably longer to correct the
- problems.
-
- As to whether or not the board functions adequately, and whether or not it
- was worth it, I think the answer must be yes. I was able to sell my 286
- motherboard for $200, with the 1meg of memory on it. I can't tell you how
- little I really paid for my new motherboard and memory, but I can say that
- the list cost was $380, plus I think, $180 per meg for 256x9 simms. So using
- list prices (that is, what HQ computers normally sells the stuff for), my
- final cost would have been $360. Plus tax. Cheaper than an All Charge Card I
- think.
-
- What I actually purchased was a 386SX board with clocks of either 16 or 20mHz
- selectable. Since we're dealing with an SX (a system that accesses memory 16
- bits at a pop) I was able to go with 1.5megs of memory, an ideal size for the
- BBS. For a real 386, I would have had to go with either 1 meg or 2 megs. The
- SX system interleaves memory on a 512K basis it seems. At least, I discussed
- the matter with HQ, and that's what we decided. If this is the case then, I
- must have 1 meg running with no wait states, and 512Kb running with 1 wait
- state... I think. In any case, I use 320Kb for a small ram disk, 64Kb to
- shadow the bios (but not the mono card's video bios), some portion for loadhi
- support, and have about 900Kb left over for applications. This is enough for
- me to run four copies of my BBS program, or three copies, the network
- software in server mode, as well as hae a 64Kb dos winodw open for file
- copying, etc. BTW, the ability to run the network software (Lantastic) as a
- task under DesqView is unique to 386 systems. It is not possible to do this
- at all on a 286 system it seems (I never had any luck at that, and messages
- appearing here now and again seem to indicate that it cannot be done).
-
- The particular 386SX motherboard I purchased doesn't have a brand name on it,
- nor on the box, nor in the manual. It is made in Taiwan however. In spite of
- this, the manual is written in a pretty good imitation of English. It is
- equipped with an AMI bios. Things that I was able to LOADHI include 30
- buffers, the network netbios driver, the network "redir" program, two copies
- of WatchKat, OpusCom, the Dos Share program and VDisk driver.
-
- The Chips and Technologies MIPS.COM program indicates that the "overall mips"
- rating is 2.31. If I use the PD Speeder program, the rate changes to to 2.41
- mips. This compares to a true 386/20 mip rate of 2.50 without speeder, or
- 2.54 with speeder. Note however, that the 386/20 had only 1 bank of memory,
- so was not interleaving it. The Mips program compares the system being tested
- to a Compaq 386/16 on its own, and the average speed compared to the Compaq
- was 1.17 times as fast. Again, this particular 386SX is pushed to 20mHz... I
- think the cost/performance breakdown compares favorably to a 386/16 or a
- 386/20... The Landmark program I consider to be crap, since it
- over-estimates a given cpu's performance by comparing it to an IBM AT defined
- to run with 1 wait state. This sorta seems to be to be like comparing a
- porsche running on five cylinders to one running on six, and saying the
- latter is operating at 120% efficiency... It seems to me that the latter runs
- at 100% efficiency, so that the five cylinder model might instead be running
- at 80% or so, not the other way 'round... None the less, Landmark is used all
- over the place in ads to tell folks that XYZ dealer's 386/33 is running at
- 55mhz. Using Landmark version 0.99, I got results of 25.5mhz. From Landmark
- 2.00, I got 24.3mhz. Note that most dealers use Landmark 0.99, no doubt due
- to the better lies it tells.
-
- The motherboard itself has some pretty artwork... The 386SX chip however, is
- a surface mount unit (soldered on, or built in) and looks somewhat tacky
- compared to the rest of the motherboard. I don't know how compatible it is
- with every little thing. I did have my daughter's EGA display on it for a
- while, but didn't run any games or anything. It does seem content to run all
- the previously mentioned software however.
-
- Two oddities were none-the-less observed. When I ran version 5 of the PC
- Magazine benchmark programs, the previously mentioned Speeder program had a
- negative impact on performance measurements. Speeder is a program which
- changes the memory refresh rate. Other similar programs are around under
- different names. While performace measurements under the PC Mag tests is
- degraded by this program, the Mips program shows an increase in performance.
- I do not know what this means. Also, as a test, I wrote two dummy programs
- which do very little. The first program checks for a keypress and if none is
- found, gives up its time slice to other tasks running. The second increments
- a counter and also gives up time to the other task. The intent of these
- programs is to measure how rapidly one can swap DesqView or DoubleDOS tasks
- on a given system. On a 386/25 with 8 megs of memory, I measured 75.9 task
- swaps per second, with the bios shadowed. On the 386SX, without bios
- shadowing, 86.7 task swaps per second were observed. The only thing I can
- think of is that maybe the extra memory on the 386/25 is slowing things a
- bit. Oh yeah... I found that I did have difficulty running an older version
- of DesqView (2.01) with QEMM, in spite of having told QEMM "olddv". No big
- problem... switching to a newer version of DV cured that. And yet another PS
- sorta note: I've
-
- --- D'Bridge 1.21
- * Origin: The Optical Illsion Point #3 (1:273/905.3)
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- From: Jim Norfleet Area: DESQview
- To: Brice Fleckenstein 14 Dec 89 14:17:00
- Subject: Re: DV VS WIN386
-
- Brice,
- Thanks. As I use Windows more and more and discover how "buggy" it really is,
- I think about trying out DesqView. Since you mentioned it, I have some
- questions for you about DV. First of all, can you run it with a mouse in the
- same way that Windows works, like moving windows and resizing them by
- pointing. Which version shoulI look for and with what add-ins (I've seen
- QEMM advertised with DV, is it necessary when I'm already using HIMEM) ? Can
- DV be run inside Windows the way you say Windows will run under DV? Does DV
- come with any extra applications like, in Windows, a card file w/autodialing,
- clock, etc. or would I have to run these type programs in a separate window?
- I would appreciate your help. Thanks.
- JIM
- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [REGISTERED]
- * Origin: Andromeda Galaxy <Animal Rights/Ecology> (518)273-8313 (1:267/167.0)
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